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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 11, 2019 8:29 am 
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Iscritto il: mer ott 03, 2012 10:51 am
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mauro65 ha scritto:
Stefano_M ha scritto:
mauro65 ha scritto:
La 3008 c’è già...
Certo come fare copia incolla, non è proprio così....
Stanno programmando per la 3008, forse mi ero spiegato male, ma nel contempo “prendono le misure” per Tonale

Perfetto grazie

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ALFA ROMEO GIULIETTA jtdm-2 20 170cv- distinctive-pack premium-pack sport 18 - Luglio 2010 -superati i 313.333KM!!!


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 11, 2019 9:25 am 
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Stefano_M ha scritto:
Perfetto grazie
E' inutile che ti affani a spoilerare di là :angelo perché è come bestemmiare in chiesa :ridi


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 11, 2019 11:01 am 
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Iscritto il: mar gen 23, 2007 3:06 pm
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ma quello un po' matto fissato con le Peugeot che fine ha fatto?? :ridi

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Fiat Panda Hobby - 39 cavalli, sì, ma non per tonnellata :alastio:


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 11, 2019 11:02 am 
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No ti prego...


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 11, 2019 11:15 am 
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Iscritto il: mar set 26, 2006 4:08 pm
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fritz287 ha scritto:
ma quello un po' matto fissato con le Peugeot che fine ha fatto?? :ridi


probabilmente ha fatto una fusione con dannatio

Immagine

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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 11, 2019 11:18 am 
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Iscritto il: mar gen 23, 2007 3:06 pm
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ste79 ha scritto:
fritz287 ha scritto:
ma quello un po' matto fissato con le Peugeot che fine ha fatto?? :ridi


probabilmente ha fatto una fusione con dannatio

Immagine


Baguette & Crema Novi!! :allegria

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Fiat Panda Hobby - 39 cavalli, sì, ma non per tonnellata :alastio:


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 11, 2019 2:35 pm 
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Iscritto il: mer ott 03, 2012 10:51 am
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mauro65 ha scritto:
Stefano_M ha scritto:
Perfetto grazie
E' inutile che ti affani a spoilerare di là :angelo perché è come bestemmiare in chiesa :ridi

Hai ragione :-) :-)

_________________
ALFA ROMEO GIULIETTA jtdm-2 20 170cv- distinctive-pack premium-pack sport 18 - Luglio 2010 -superati i 313.333KM!!!


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MessaggioInviato: gio dic 12, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Iscritto il: ven apr 28, 2006 6:03 pm
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Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Peugeot maker PSA Group are aiming to sign a formal agreement next week to combine into the world's fourth-biggest car manufacturer, according to people familiar with the matter.

Progress is being made on the memorandum of understanding even though some outstanding issues still have to be resolved, said the people who asked not to be named because the information isn’t public.

Ways to assess potential FCA liabilities that have come to light since a broad outline of the accord was unveiled Oct. 31 are still under discussion, they said, adding that more than 100 managers are participating.

Following the unveiling of the merger plan, rival General Motors hit FCA with a racketeering lawsuit alleging a bribery and corruption scheme. FCA has called the accusations "meritless."

In a separate development, Italian tax authorities claimed FCA underestimated the value of its U.S. business by 5.1 billion euros ($5.7 billion) following its phased acquisition several years ago. FCA has said it "strongly" disagrees with the case, which could potentially lead to a levy of as much $1.5 billion.

A merger of Fiat Chrysler and PSA, the No. 2 for car sales in Europe, would create a regional powerhouse to challenge Volkswagen Group.


Under the plan, the new company based in the Netherlands would be headed by PSA CEO Carlos Tavares, while FCA Chairman John Elkann would keep his role as chairman.


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As two of the most asset-heavy industries in Europe, manufacturing and transport are facing strong headwinds thanks to growing operational costs and competitive pressures coming from within the European continent and beyond.
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The combination would leave Tavares, who turned around PSA and the money-losing Opel brand it acquired, to figure out how to improve Fiat’s struggling operations in Europe. Fiat’s deep Italian roots, along with the French government's 12 percent stake in PSA, may make any plans to slim down the new entity more difficult.

Representatives for FCA and PSA declined to comment. The companies had said they aimed to sign a deal before the end of the year.

FCA shares gained 2.7 percent to 13.33 euros as of 5:14 p.m. in Milan, giving FCA a market value of 20.7 billion euros. PSA was up 2.8 percent to 21.51 euros in Paris, for market value of 19.5 billion euros.

FCA e Psa firmeranno la settimana prossima il memorandum vincolante, verranno tenute in conto le 2 grane ( causa GM e fisco italiano) che sono scoppiate recentemente.


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MessaggioInviato: ven dic 13, 2019 9:58 am 
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Secondo Reuters il Board di PSA approverà l'accordo martedì, ci sarà un memorandum più ricco di dettagli da spiegare alla stampa.


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MessaggioInviato: sab dic 14, 2019 12:25 pm 
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PARIS/MILAN -- French shareholders in the planned merger of PSA and Fiat Chrysler are seeking reassurances that they will retain a numerical advantage on a combined board if CEO Carlos Tavares were to leave, two sources close to PSA told Reuters.

The two companies are finalizing talks after announcing a plan for a $50 billion merger of equals in October that would create the world's fourth-largest automaker.

Under the terms of the draft Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), PSA and Fiat Chrysler would each have five seats on the board of the merged entity.

An eleventh seat would go to Tavares, who is CEO of PSA and is set to take on the same role in the new group.

French shareholders view the seat held by Tavares as giving them the de-facto role of senior partners and want to know this advantage would be preserved in the event of him leaving, the sources told Reuters on Friday.

There is no evidence that the issue has surfaced in talks as an obstacle to the deal and a source close to FCA said the draft agreement over the new group's governance was not being questioned and that there was no issue delaying the deal.

PSA, the maker of Peugeot and Citroen, has called a meeting of its supervisory board for Tuesday which could discuss the FCA deal, two separate sources had said.


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As two of the most asset-heavy industries in Europe, manufacturing and transport are facing strong headwinds thanks to growing operational costs and competitive pressures coming from within the European continent and beyond.
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Both companies have said they were confident of reaching a merger deal by the end of the year, but the sources said the French partners were seeking clarification on the issue before a memorandum sealing the deal is signed.

Shareholder advisory company Proxinvest said in a note that the French group's shareholders were paying "an implicit control premium (...) while there was no real control of PSA on FCA."

PSA, the BPI public investment bank representing the French government's shareholding and FCA, declined to comment

Gli azionisti francesi manterranno la maggioranza del consiglio anche dopo che Tavares se ne andrà. E’ la garanzia del potere francese qualsiasi cosa accada.


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MessaggioInviato: mar dic 17, 2019 4:04 pm 
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Conferenza stampa congiunta per FCA e PSA domani mattina.


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MessaggioInviato: mar dic 17, 2019 10:12 pm 
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Tyreal_Reloaded ha scritto:
Pare che Elkann abbia dichiarato: "l'italianità del marchio non è minimamente in discussione e come previsto per i prossimi anni lanceremo ai quattro venti dieci modelli"

fixed


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 11:16 am 
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Firmato l’accordo vincolante per la fusione tra FCA E PSA, i tempi non saranno brevissimi dato che ci vorranno 12-15 mesi per il closing.
Tavares non ha escluso cessioni di divisioni per superare resistenze dell’antitrust.

Qui faccio una breve review dei punti principali mediante le slides fornite da FCA.

I dati sono pro forma però indicano una buona robustezza finanziaria del gruppo. Il profitto operativo dovrebbe superare i 10 miliardi di euro all’anno grazie alle attività europee di PSA e quelle americane di FCA. C’ è una buona complementarietà geografica.
Nel medio termine (entro il 2025 ci sarà la convergenza totale delle piattaforme.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 11:19 am 
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Questa slide descrive il cuore tecnologico della fusione ed anche perché FCA è stata praticamente costretta a trovarsi un alleato.
Già adesso PSA riesce ad ottemperare alle regole di emissioni in Europa, FCA ce la fa solo con l’aiuto determinante dei crediti. La convergenza su piattaforme PSA per il basso/compatto di gamma sarà totale, anche tutti i nuovi modelli europei di FCA avranno versioni tradizionali e versioni elettriche.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 11:22 am 
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In Europa c’è una sovrapposizione di modelli importanti con PSa che supera FCA ovunque tranne che nel segmento A (che andrà a scomparire).
In America viene confermato il lancio dei suv grandi tra fine 2020 e inizio 2021.


Allegati:
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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 11:33 am 
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Altre notizie importanti: lo stato francese e Dongfeng ridurranno la propria quota, in parte le azioni verranno comprate da PSa e cancellate, in parte verranno acquistate dalla famiglia Peugeot. Alla fine ci sarà un equilibrio tra Exor e il lato francese, entrambi deterranno il 14% dell’azionariato con un lock up di 3 anni.
Per gli azionisti di FCA arriverà una pioggia di miliardi pari a 6,6 miliardi, gli azionisti di PsA si dovranno accontentare di 3,7.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 11:33 am 
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Analisi di automotive news dei diversi marchi del nuovo gruppo italofrancese.

TURIN -- A combined PSA Group and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will have 14 brands, from Alfa Romeo to Peugeot. But would all of them survive?

PSA chief Carlos Tavares, as designated CEO of the combined company, said in November that there were no current plans to scrap any of the brands, but he acknowledged that managing the portfolio would be part of the "challenge" he and his leadership team will face.

The new company would produce 8.7 million vehicles annually, based on current sales, making it the world's fourth-largest automaker. But some of the brands, especially FCA's, have been starved of investment or rely on just one or several models. And there is a risk of geographical or segment overlap.

Tavares suggested that despite his love for storied brand names like Alfa Romeo, some might not survive. "We love the history of car brands, it gives us a foundation on which we can project ourselves into the future," he told the French broadcaster BFM Business.

He said that the merged group could have a "significant number" of brands -- but less than Volkswagen Group, the current No. 1 automaker, with more than 10 million annual sales and 10 passenger car brands, including newer Chinese ones such as Sihao and Jetta.

The Renault Nissan Mitsubishi alliance, which vies with VW for the top spot, has just four brands with global reach (Renault, Nissan, Mitsubishi and Infiniti), as well as regional players such as Alpine, Dacia, Datsun, Lada, Renault Samsung and Venucia.

Toyota, the No. 3 automaker, has just Toyota, Hino and Lexus as global brands, plus regional brands such as Daihatsu.


CONTENT FROM EQUINIX
Digital Industrial Revolution | Equinix Webinar
As two of the most asset-heavy industries in Europe, manufacturing and transport are facing strong headwinds thanks to growing operational costs and competitive pressures coming from within the European continent and beyond.
READ MORE
The following analysis is based on company figures for PSA and Jato Dynamics estimates for FCA, as it does not report sales by brand.

Abarth: Tavares, a racing enthusiast, could have a soft spot for Abarth's high-performance variants of Fiat's mainstream models. As COO of Renault, Tavares was the driving force in the revival of Alpine, the French equivalent to Abarth. Abarth was founded in 1949 and taken over by Fiat in 1971. It was closed in 1981 and restarted in 2007, and now offers performance versions of the Fiat 500 minicar and the recently discontinued 124 Spider, itself a variant of the Mazda MX-5. Sales increased 7.4 percent last year, to 26,736 units. But without an electrified model in its lineup, Abarth is at risk because of stricter EU emissions rules that take effect Jan. 1.

Alfa Romeo: FCA's last three attempts to relaunch this Italian brand with a strong racing heritage failed badly. Founded in 1910 and bought by Fiat in 1986, Alfa had been constantly losing money for almost 20 years.
After ceasing production of the Mito small hatchback and the low-volume 4C coupe and spider, Alfa today offers just three models: the Giulietta compact hatchback, the Giulia midsize sedan and the Stelvio midsize SUV.
Global sales increased by 10 percent in 2018, to 119,269 vehicles, of which 69 percent were in Europe and 21 percent in North America. But in Europe, at least, sales have fallen sharply this year, to 45,232 units through the end of October from 74,746 in the same period in 2018. The Stelvio was the brand's best seller in 2018, at 46,087 units. At the end of October, FCA Mike Manley said that investments into Alfa would be reduced, throwing its future into further doubt. Among the effects: the Giulietta will not be replaced; plug-in hybrid versions of the Giulia and Stelvio will not appear; and two other announced models, a large SUV for the North American market and a high-performance coupe have been killed. The brand will add a small and compact SUV, the latter previewed by the Tonale concept displayed this year at the Geneva auto show. Tavares would have to decide if it is worth the time and money for yet another relaunch for a brand that this year will sell less than 100,000 units globally.

Citroen: This French brand, founded in 1919 and part of PSA since 1976, is in the midst of a strategic repositioning focusing on comfort and seems safe. Citroen now shares underpinnings with other PSA brands, but it is famous for three milestones in automotive history: the Traction Avant of the 1930s, the world's first mass-produced front-wheel-drive car; the 2CV, which brought cheap and quirky transportation to postwar France; and the DS of the 1950s, distinguished by its space age styling and pneumatic suspension and transmission. Citroen sold 1.05 million cars last year, mostly in Europe, with the small C3 hatchback its bestseller with 252,000 units. Sales are down by 3.9 percent this year through the third quarter, and the Chinese market, where Citroen was the first French brand to establish a manufacturing presence, is a particularly weak point, as it is for all PSA brands.

Chrysler: The namesake brand of the North American side of FCA is quietly fading away: It offers just two models, the 300 large sedan and the Pacifica minivan, the latter as the group's only plug-in hybrid. Founded in 1925 and merged into Fiat in 2014, Chrysler last year saw its sales decrease by 13 percent to 178,102 units globally, of which 166,000 were in the U.S. This year sales in the U.S. are down 26 percent through the third quarter. FCA did not announce any new models for Chrysler in its five-year plan unveiled in June 2018.

DS Automobiles: PSA unveiled this upscale brand in 2014, when it relied on versions of Citroen models. The name is a homage to Citroen's legendary flagship sedan, and PSA hoped that it would evoke an image of French luxury and design, especially among Chinese buyers. But sales fell sharply until 2018, when the brand's first all-new model, the DS 7 Crossback compact SUV, was introduced. It was joined this year by the DS 3 Crossback small SUV, and sales are up 8.2 percent through the third quarter. Even so, the Chinese joint venture is being dissolved after production slowed to a trickle. Tavares and DS executives say the brand is profitable, despite selling just 53,300 units in 2018. A new flagship sedan is set to debut next March at the Geneva show.

Dodge: This American brand dates back to 1900 and was acquired by Chrysler in 1928. Today it is focused on performance cars -- the Charger large sedan and the Challenger coupe -- and the lineup includes an SUV, a crossover and a minivan. Its 2018 sales declined by 3.9 percent to 554,782 units, nearly all sold in North America. Sales of the Charger are up this year, likely helped by sales to law enforcement agencies. FCA has not recently announced any new models for Dodge.

Fiat: The namesake brand of the Italian side of FCA turned 120 years old in July. It would be the second-largest brand in the merged company, with 1.38 million units sold last year, after Peugeot. Fiat has substantial manufacturing and sales operations in Europe and Latin America, as well as a successful light-commercial vehicle division, Fiat Professional, which shares with PSA production of the Ducato large family of vans. The brand has abandoned China and is fading in the U.S., where it is discontinuing sales of the 500 minicar. Global sales last year declined 8.5 percent and have fallen by more than 10 percent this year in Europe, its main market. The aging 500 remains Fiat's best seller, and it leads the minicar segment in Europe with the Fiat Panda. But FCA has recently said it would abandon the low-margin minicar segment, suggesting that it would try to move buyers up to the small car segment. A new range of small and compact models could be launched based on PSA's CMP architecture.
Fiat is planning to unveil in March at the Geneva show an electric version of the 500 minicar, but it is seen as lagging behind other automakers in electrification.

Jeep: The brand has passed from American Motors to Renault to Chrysler to Daimler to FCA, but it has thrived under Italian stewardship. When Fiat merged with Chrysler in 2014, Jeep sold 1 million units and had four plants in the U.S. Last year, Jeep increased global sales by 11 percent to 1.55 million units, with a total of 10 manufacturing facilities in the U.S., Mexico, Italy, Brazil, China and India. Its most iconic model is the Wrangler, an heir to the original World War II era Jeeps. Its best-selling model is the Compass compact crossover, with 413,000 units.
A big boost to Jeep sales in Europe could come from an entry model, to slot below the Renegade, that FCA has announced and postponed several times. The so-called B-Jeep now seems slated for a 2022 launch.

Lancia: Now a single-model brand, Lancia looks at risk under a merged company. It could play in the same near-premium segments as DS. Founded in 1906 as an Italian luxury brand focused on design and comfort, it was taken over by Fiat in 1969. Lancia's fortunes began to decline a decade ago when Fiat drastically reduced its pipeline of new models. Two years ago, Lancia was reduced to just the Ypsilon small car -- sold only in Italy, where it found 48,557 customers in 2018, but sales are up considerably this year.

Maserati: The only truly premium brand in the PSA-FCA merger, Maserati was born as a race car maker in Bologna, Italy, in 1914 and moved to Modena in 1937, the first in a long series of ownership changes. Fiat bought an initial stake in 1989 and completed the takeover in 1993, giving full control of Maserati to its then-subsidiary Ferrari. Maserati today builds the Ghibli midsize sedan, Quattroporte large sedan and Levante midsize SUV. Sales last year fell by 28 percent to 35,238 units, and have continued to drop in 2019, as the brand slumped in its two largest markets, China and the U.S. FCA is planning to relaunch Maserati with seven new models between 2020 and 2023, all featuring a battery electric variant.

Opel: With its sister British brand Vauxhall, the German-based brand is the latest addition to PSA's stable after the French group bought it from GM in 2017. Opel produced its first car in 1899, and in 1929 GM took a majority stake in the company, using it as its European arm. But Opel had been losing hundreds of millions of dollars annually in the decades before PSA's acquisition. Sales in 2018 were 1.04 million, and have fallen slightly this year, by 2.2 percent. Under Tavares Opel has been returned to profitability, largely by moving models to PSA platforms and finding efficiencies in purchasing, engineering and other functions. Currently a Europe-only brand, Opel hopes to become more international, starting with re-entering the Russian market. The small Corsa, Opel/Vauxhall's best-seller, has been renewed this year on PSA's CMP platform, including a battery electric version.

Peugeot: The "P" in PSA has a history that dates back more than 200 years, and it would be the largest brand in a PSA-FCA merger, with 1.74 million units sold last year. The family business that preceded the current Peugeot company was founded in 1810 to manufacture coffee mills and bicycles. Armand Peugeot built the company's first car, a steam tricycle in 1889; this was followed in 1890 by an internal combustion car with a Panhard-Daimler engine. Peugeot remained under family control until February 2014, when to stave off financial collapse the family accepted a capital hike in which Dongfeng Motors of China and the French government each bought a 14 percent stake for about 800 million euros each. The Peugeot family stake was consequently reduced to 14 percent.
The majority of Peugeot sales are in Europe, where it is the fourth-best-selling brand after Volkswagen, Renault and Ford. The 208 small hatchback is Peugeot's best seller at 294,000. A new generation is being launched currently, including a battery-electric variant. Other top sellers are the 3008 compact SUV, the 5008 midsize SUV and the newly renewed 2008 small SUV. Sales are down around 20 percent this year, due to slumps in China, Latin America and the Middle East, including the complete loss of the large Iranian market after sanctions were reimposed there.

Ram: Together with Jeep, Ram is the cash cow of FCA's North America region, which in the third quarter delivered 2.02 billion euros in operating profit, equivalent to a 10.6 percent operating margin. The American nameplate had been used for Dodge pickup models before becoming a standalone brand under former FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne in 2009. Sales rose from 263,000 units that year to 720,456 in 2018, and 2019 sales of pickups and vans are up sharply.

Vauxhall: It was founded in 1857 as a pump and marine engine company before turning to cars in the early 20th century. It was acquired by GM in 1925, and in recent decades built and sold Opel models in the UK. Opel CEO Michael Lohscheller recently said that Vauxhall would remain in a merged PSA-FCA, saying that it was the only British volume brand, and that it could offer opportunities, especially with Brexit.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 12:03 pm 
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Non li vedo male manco come commerciali leggeri; Doblò e Scudo sono praticamente pronti da rimarchiare, Qubo e Ducato possono esser rinnovati con ulteriori generazioni.
Vedo AN un pelo caustico su alfa...


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 12:09 pm 
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D'altra parte SEVEL produce furghe insieme a PSA da secoli.

Su Alfa: la realtà delle cose è caustica.

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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 12:13 pm 
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Secondo me, nel breve periodo, salutiamo Lancia, Dodge e Chrysler.
Nel medio, anche Alfa Romeo e Abarth. Sicuramente Tavares avrà molta più libertà di movimento e meno condizioni nel falciare i marchi nostrani.

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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 12:18 pm 
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La sovrapposizione dei marchi non è un problema e volkswagen insegna.

Io aspetterei con i soliti " moriremo tutti". Per FCA è la soluzione migliore disponibile sulla piazza.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Temprone ha scritto:
La sovrapposizione dei marchi non è un problema e volkswagen insegna.

Io aspetterei con i soliti " moriremo tutti". Per FCA è la soluzione migliore disponibile sulla piazza.

Certo, la fusione fa solo bene.
Però Vw ha marchi profittevoli, e quelli che lo sono meno (Seat) ci hanno messo anni (decenni) ad avvicinarsi al profitto.
Alfa con due modelli e un terzo in arrivo tra un anno e mezzo la vedo male, considerando che nel 2021 Giulia e Stelvio saranno vecchie, e già ora non sono state molto aggiornate.

Salvo che (sto sparando), non comincino a spalmare le piattaforme su più marchi, per coprire un po' tutti i mercati. Magari un italiano la DS non la compra, l'Alfa si, anche se con pianale e motori Peugeot (che poi non sarebbe un dramma, vista la produzione dell'ultima decade su base Fiat).

Lancia praticamente è già scritto, così come Dodge e Chrysler (non credo si mettano a progettare berline medie su piattaforma francese).

Sul resto (commerciali, segmento C, B, Suv, etc), sicuramente saranno una bella gatta da pelare per i concorrenti.

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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 12:23 pm 
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Alfa imho potrebbe anche salvarsi.
Sotto FCA il problema era che di fatto le piattaforme non erano condivise con altri marchi, quindi dovevano sviluppare pianali ad hoc con conseguente aumento dei costi e crollo della marginalità.
Con PSA questo problema non c'è più e, nonostante tutto, Alfa è l'unico marchio del gruppo che potrebbe fare concorrenza alla triade se ben amministrato (perlomeno fino al segmento D e forse anche E in sinergia con maserati)

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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 12:41 pm 
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Multiplone ha scritto:
Temprone ha scritto:
La sovrapposizione dei marchi non è un problema e volkswagen insegna.

Io aspetterei con i soliti " moriremo tutti". Per FCA è la soluzione migliore disponibile sulla piazza.

Certo, la fusione fa solo bene.
Però Vw ha marchi profittevoli, e quelli che lo sono meno (Seat) ci hanno messo anni (decenni) ad avvicinarsi al profitto.
Alfa con due modelli e un terzo in arrivo tra un anno e mezzo la vedo male, considerando che nel 2021 Giulia e Stelvio saranno vecchie, e già ora non sono state molto aggiornate.

Salvo che (sto sparando), non comincino a spalmare le piattaforme su più marchi, per coprire un po' tutti i mercati. Magari un italiano la DS non la compra, l'Alfa si, anche se con pianale e motori Peugeot (che poi non sarebbe un dramma, vista la produzione dell'ultima decade su base Fiat).



CMP ed EMP2 diventeranno una costante per tutti i marchi. Copri i segmenti dal B al D, suv compresi ovviamente, e sono multi energy.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Il Basso di Genova ha scritto:
D'altra parte SEVEL produce furghe insieme a PSA da secoli.

Su Alfa: la realtà delle cose è caustica.

Sevel sud da una vita fa dei ducati e corrispettivi psa a san benedetto, ma se non ricordo male Sevel nord (quella francese) aveva rotto passando tutta a PSA, infatti non erano stati annunciati accordi per i commerciali al di sotto delle furghe tipo scudo, doblò, qubo.


Ultima modifica di mjazz il mer dic 18, 2019 1:31 pm, modificato 1 volta in totale.

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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 1:09 pm 
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ste79 ha scritto:
Alfa imho potrebbe anche salvarsi.
Sotto FCA il problema era che di fatto le piattaforme non erano condivise con altri marchi, quindi dovevano sviluppare pianali ad hoc con conseguente aumento dei costi e crollo della marginalità.
Con PSA questo problema non c'è più e, nonostante tutto, Alfa è l'unico marchio del gruppo che potrebbe fare concorrenza alla triade se ben amministrato (perlomeno fino al segmento D e forse anche E in sinergia con maserati)

Non vedo sbocchi francesi per l'attuale piattaforma alfa, la giorgio intendo; la condivisibilità che ha adesso sarà la stessa anche in futuro, ovvero maserati e casomai roba USA, fatico ad immaginarmi delle peugeot o citroen a tp. E' più vero invece il contrario, ovvero piattaforme francesi usate per modelli Alfa B e C, e un punto di domanda sul D ed E. Tutto sta nella volontà di Tavares di tentare un ennesimo rilancio dopo i fallimenti di Marchionne e precedenti.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 1:33 pm 
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In outlining the industrial side of their merger, PSA Group and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles said that more than two-thirds of their production would be concentrated on just two platforms, with 3 million cars per year on a compact/midsize platform and 2.6 million on a small platform.

The smaller platform will be PSA’s CMP architecture and larger cars will be on the group’s EMP2, industry sources told Automotive News Europe. Ram pickups and larger Jeep models will continue to use FCA underpinnings.


PSA’s architectures offer several advantages. They are multi-energy, meaning they can accommodate gasoline, diesel or electrified drivetrains, allowing a quick response to customer demand without significant new investments on production lines. They are also more modern than FCA’s equivalent platforms, with cars on the CMP architecture starting to go into production in 2019.

Moving FCA vehicles to PSA platforms could quickly increase economies of scale for the merged company, much as PSA did after acquiring Opel in 2017.


The DS 3 Crossback small crossover, was the first PSA model to use the CMP platform. A battery electric variant is being launched this year.
PSA's multi-energy architectures
The CMP platform, designed to cover the small car and the lower part of the compact segment, allows for gasoline, diesel or full-electric power. It was launched last year with the DS 3 Crossback small SUV, and it underpins the new generation of Peugeot 208 and 2008 and the Opel/Vauxhall Corsa. The next model using CMP is expected to be a replacement for the Citroen C4 Cactus compact hatchback, due next year.


The EMP2 platform, covering the upper part of the compact segment up to midsize models, debuted in 2017 on the Peugeot 3008 compact crossover. It is also on the 5008 midsize SUV, the DS 7 Crossback, the Citroen C5 Aircross and the Opel Grandland. The Peugeot 508 midsize sedan and station wagon, launched last year, were the first passenger cars using the architecture. Currently EMP2 is offered with gasoline, diesel and gasoline plug-in hybrid models, but it is also designed to offer pure battery models in the next decade.

The first FCA model based on the CMP architecture could be a small crossover for Alfa Romeo, due in late 2022, also with a battery-only variant.


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The Fiat 500e electric model, set to debut in March at the Geneva show and to go on sale next fall, will not be affected by the transition to PSA’s architectures, as it is in an advanced stage of development. It is based on a modified FCA small car architecture and will be built in the Mirafiori plant in Turin.


FCA has said that it will exit the minicar segment and has written off investments in the Mini architecture used in the Fiat 500 and Panda and Lancia Ypsilon. PSA is also likely to leave the segment, with no plans to replace the Citroen C1 and Peugeot 108, now built along with the Toyota Aygo in a jointly owned factory in Kolin, Czech Republic. PSA will leave the joint venture at the end of this year, and Toyota will take full ownership of the plant in 2021

The remaining joint FCA-PSA production of larger models, about 3 million units in 2018, are mainly body-on-frame pickups from Ram (720,000 sales in 2108), and Chrysler and Dodge large sedans, minivans and SUVs (730,000 sales in 2018). Other models on dedicated platforms include the body-on-frame Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator; the Jeep Grand Cherokee, on a unibody platform shared with the Dodge Durango; and commercial vans for Citroen, Fiat and Peugeot. Peugeot is expected to introduce a body-on-frame pickup next year, developed with its Chinese partner Dongfeng.

Qualche conferma dei piani di Tavares per le prossime Fiat. La Tonale dovrebbe essere su pianale B-wide.


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 1:38 pm 
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daimlerchrysler ha scritto:
The first FCA model based on the CMP architecture could be a small crossover for Alfa Romeo, due in late 2022, also with a battery-only variant.


Quindi una Mito Suv?


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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 1:38 pm 
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mjazz ha scritto:
Non vedo sbocchi francesi per l'attuale piattaforma alfa, la giorgio intendo; la condivisibilità che ha adesso sarà la stessa anche in futuro, ovvero maserati e casomai roba USA, fatico ad immaginarmi delle peugeot o citroen a tp. E' più vero invece il contrario, ovvero piattaforme francesi usate per modelli Alfa B e C, e un punto di domanda sul D ed E. Tutto sta nella volontà di Tavares di tentare un ennesimo rilancio dopo i fallimenti di Marchionne e precedenti.


Forse mi sono espresso male, ma era quello che intendevo anche io.
Alfa avrà a disposizione delle piattaforme per i segmenti B,C e D, suv compresi, cosa che negli ultimi anni non era successa.
eventualmente, come dici tu, si potrebbe pensare una strategia diversa per il segmento D, con una maggiore condivisione con Maserati e americane.
Che poi, a ben vedere, è esattamente quello che fa audi: B e C pianale VW; D, E ed F pianale condiviso con porsche :leggi

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MessaggioInviato: mer dic 18, 2019 1:56 pm 
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mjazz ha scritto:
daimlerchrysler ha scritto:
The first FCA model based on the CMP architecture could be a small crossover for Alfa Romeo, due in late 2022, also with a battery-only variant.


Quindi una Mito Suv?


Sì potremmo dire una Alfa Romeo 2008. Manley la annunciò già a ottobre.
Giulia e Stelvio non avranno il plug in come previsto invece.


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